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10/28/2003 Entry: "Living Wills and Playing God"

There is an ongoing drama here in Florida (we seem to be specialists in "ongoing dramas") where a woman, Terri Shiavo, who has been in a vegetative state for 13 years and kept alive only with a feeding tube finally had the tube removed after years of wrangling and manuevering between her parents and her husband. The husband claims that before Terri suffered a massive heart attack (brought on by a potassium defficiency because of the illness of Bolemia), she had expressed that she did not want to ever be kept alive by artificial means. Her parents deny that she ever made this request. Because of oxygen deprevation as a result of her heart being stopped too long, this young woman's brain ceased normal function and threw her into what most experts agree is an irreversable coma and essential brain death. Because Terri had no living will, someone in the medical field chose to put her on a feeding tube 13 years ago.

Now, an ongoing fued between her parents , birth family and her husband has gone all the way to the highest court in Florida where the judges weighed all the information and sided with her husband, agreeing that she should not be kept alive artificially any longer. The tube was removed and then the fireworks began. Right to life groups, based on a video short clip where she appears to respond to her parents (her eyes are always open, as is her mouth), have thrust their noses into this family's business, taken their protests to our state government and, in one short day of debate with no time for the research done by the courts for years, had legislation passed to put the tube back in. Our governor, Jeb Bush (brother of another well intentioned, but sometimes misguided political figure, George W.) signed the bill and claimed victory for Terri as though she was being returned to some sort of quality existence. Now, for the second time in Terri's life, several people have played God on her behalf.

It seems to me that the first instance was 13 years ago when the feeding tube was first inserted. ( I also wonder why her husband didn't remember her desires to not be kept artificially at that time). Hasn't the last 13 years been just as cruel or more so to Terri, her family (parents, sister and husband) than the means by which she would have died, which would have been a form of starvation, but as a result of depriving her of food and water, but a tube going directly to her stomach that gave her bare nutrients and liquid, but not enough to keep her at a natural weight?

Had nature been allowed to take its course 13 years ago, Terri would not be in a nursing home or having this fued going on. If one believes that this life is a very short speck in eternity, she would have stepped on into the rest of eternity only a blink sooner than the rest of her contemporaries.

Now, lawmakers and our governor have played God once again and delayed Terri's departure as though she was brought back to some kind of quality of life. My suspicion is that Terri's wishes and desires were not the prime motivating factor, but the number of would-be voters protesting what they felt was a cruel way of ending someone's life without having all the facts and information. They were moved by out of context video clips, emotional appeals from parents who can't let go and judgement on a husband who is being painted as unfaithful and out only for the malpractice money. Now, the battle goes on the real loser is Terri and anyone else who may have expressed their feelings about being kept alive aritifically but never wrote those feelings down in a living will.

I think I'd better get out my paper and start writing before my representatives decide what to do with me.

Ivan The Crank

Posted by Ivan The Crank @ 10/30/2003 01:12 PM CST

I drew up my will in my early 20's and my family knows my wishes regarding DNR.That said, here in Canada I honestly don't know how 'legal' a living will is.The last death I attended required meetings with medical people every two days. As the chaplain wisely said....

"They (medical) are committed to keeping her alive. My job is to help her die."

Posted by Bene Diction @ 10/29/2003 10:00 PM CST

Dear Rich D, as you can tell, I proved my point when I reversed the truth. I and my mind are DEFINITELY NOT infinite and God,in all His grace, mercy and forgiveness for many things, including bad writing and editing, is DEFINITELY INFINITE. Thanks for the correction before the lightning or anything else strikes!!!! Ivan

Posted by Ivan the Crank @ 10/29/2003 09:40 PM CST

P.S. Pieter, I looked at your website and applaud your convictions. At 19, everything was black and white to me as well. But, 25 years later I've learned that everything is not black and white, from the pro-life/pro-choice debate (you might be suprised that I rest much more heavily in the pro-life camp than where you've placed me)to interpretation of Scriptures and claiming to know God's will on every subject. God and life throw us a lot of curves that are not easily explained. You and my son would have some very interesting discussions and both would be convinced that your opinions are absolute truth. I hope that you continue to defend your causes, but never stop listening and learning from those who differ with you, especially in life and death and eternal life and death matters. En Pax Christo. Ivan

Posted by Ivan The Crank @ 10/29/2003 09:36 PM CST

not meaning to nitpick, but it should be picked up on before you get struck by lightning or something...

I think your last sentence should have read "I and my mind are FINITE, God and His mind are not."

Cheers!

Posted by Rich D @ 10/29/2003 09:36 PM CST

I appreciate all the comments to my posting about Terri and her plight, even Pieter's, for he provided access to video that I had not seen before. The clips do show that Terri is more responsive than her husband portrayed, but some "experts" still maintain that the reactions are reflex, not controlled. I'm not so sure, since she had to be told several times to "open her eyes" before she did and when following the balloon, we either saw the balloon or a close up of Terri, but not both, so were her eyes following the balloon or not?

Be that as it may, my point was to get some sort of conversation going here about living wills, quality of life issues, etc.. Based on the number of times I've been by the side of someone who has agonized over removing life support from a loved one or is making a choice to continue chemo therapy or to quit and have a higher quality of life for a shorter time, I do not nor have I ever seen choosing death as a first, easy or normative option. Nor is choosing to keep someone alive artificially an easy decision to make when there is contradictory evidence as to what that life is really like. I guess one of my points was "who has the right to make these decisions anyway? The drs, family, lawmakers, courts? Did Terri really make her wishes known before her heart attack? I've even wondered about that claim, since I really didn't think of life support and those kind of decisions in my 20's, except in the case of people in my parishes.

I respect Pieter's right to disagree with any of us, but I would hope that we would all realize that this is a discussion forum, not a place where anyone should be under attack for expressing an opinion.

In answer to Bene, Living Wills in the US are legally binding if presented to medical personnel, but if there is no such document, and the patient is not able to respond, then they are bound to do everything possible to keep the person alive. I'm not sure of all of the ramifications if you have a legal guardian and what decisions he or she can make on your behalf.

I would, as an Arminian and not a Calvanist, question whether our days are numbered or not. If they are, then those who died in the twin towers and the Pentagon on September 11 were not martyrs, their time was just up. Or, everyone who died in plane crashes or car wrecks, it was just their time. But, I don't believe God loads up a plane and sends it into a building or to the ground to expidite our departure from this life. I believe in cause and effect, free will and the effects of our own sinfulness on our own lives and all of creation. Sometimes, God intervenes and miracles happen and Terri's and others awaken from a long coma, but more times than not, God chooses not to intervene for whatever reason. I and my mind are infinite, God and His mind are not.

Posted by Ivan The Crank @ 10/29/2003 09:25 PM CST

How legally binding is a living will in the US?

In other words Ivan, if you write up at DNR, and medical personnel are presented with it by your representative...is it honoured?

Posted by Bene Diction @ 10/29/2003 06:43 PM CST

I looked at Pieter's website. Interestingly, he believes in a republican Christian theocracy. That gives me the willies.

Constantinism is alive and well.

Oh, and one comment on Pieter's theology. The problem with throwing out "God has numbered" so and so's days, puts folks into a bit of a pickle. It's a case of a Calvinistic doctrine of sovereignty that, when taken to its logical conclusion, leaves people unable to take any action in a given situation, for to do so would usurp God's authority/sovreignty. In addition, folks typically play the God is Sovereign Trump Card so that it represents their particular view, whether or not their view is biblical or ethical.

OK, I' going back to my little graduate student hole now.

Posted by Theologian Guy @ 10/29/2003 02:38 PM CST

It's one of those issues that is hard to describe in black and white terms. Those clips certainly show responsiveness and a degree of mental alertness in Teri. Given that, she should be allowed to live.

But then, who is "playing God" here? Is it the people who are determined to force life to carry on through any means possible, or the people who are trying to carry out the supposed wishes of the healthy Teri? If indeed Teri did request not to be kept alive by artificial means, I think her wishes should be kept to.

Posted by Rich D @ 10/29/2003 02:33 PM CST

I don't know why Pieter has to be so nasty, but then, all trolls want is attention, negative or otherwise. Ignoring a troll by not responding results in an unhappy troll, but sometimes that is the only solution. This discussion isn't all about Pieter, it's about a women whose fate is more important than a attention seeking troll.

Allowing nature to take it's course is one thing, starving someone to death is murder. Life isn't easy or kind always, but to take a life willingly is unthinkable. Good post Ivan.

Posted by Cricket @ 10/29/2003 01:52 PM CST

Pieter, you don't have to agree with someone to play nice. By the standards for respect that you mention above, Richard and some others would have been completely justified in being nasty, flippant disrespectful and rude in their interactions on YOUR website, because of your beliefs. Instead, a few fine Christians have been the model of restraint and loving interaction to you.

You might want to consider returning the favor, at least when you're commenting on their blogs, ya know?

Posted by Jonathan @ 10/29/2003 01:38 PM CST

Ah, but how am I to know whether or not Ivan the Crank is my elder? For all I know, here on the WWW, he may be my junior.

As for respect, why should I show respect to those who enthusiastically insist that man should "let nature take its course." A man who thus sets HIMself up as God, since it is God who numbered Terri's days, and it is not up to Ivan or anyone else to contest God's numbering.

Why should I respect those who are pro-death?

Act like an adult? You mean not respecting the ludicrous opinions of people who would just as soon starve Terri to death as snap their fingers isn't acting like an adult?

*sigh* I must act like an adult. A word of advice, then. Don't be the pot calling the kettle black.

As for kindness, if I were 21, and if Richard came to visit me, I'd gladly buy him a beer. That's kindness. Kindness has nothing to with not snorting through my nose when someone suggests that a woman who can open her eyes upon command, laugh, and react to irritants ought to be starved to death.

Posted by Pieter Friedrich @ 10/29/2003 03:03 AM CST

"Poor, poor misinformed Ivan?"

Excuse me, Pieter.

Show some respect for your elders whether you agree with them or not, please. Richard has shown you kindness. Act like an adult and show some back.If you can't, go troll somewhere else.

Posted by Bene Diction @ 10/28/2003 11:26 PM CST

Ivan The Crank...he puts the "death" in "pro-death."

Poor, poor vegetative Terri...her eyes are always open. Or...not.

"During an examination, the doctor asks Terri to open her eyes wide. She opens her eyes, turns her head and raises her eyebrows in response." Download the footage here.

Ivan says people believe Terri is not in a vegetative state "based on *III* video short clip." (The emphasis is my own.) *III* video clip, Ivan? Poor, poor misinformed Ivan. Try taking a look at this.

Posted by Pieter Friedrich @ 10/28/2003 10:04 PM CST