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10/20/2003 Entry: "Capital Punishment"
Lethal Injection -- the safer, simpler nicer execution?
Replies:
since we jettisoned the Old Testament like Rob suggested -- Pieter is referring to a comment by a different Rob on a parallel thread on Pen's site. The only thing I've jettisoned is the idea that capital punishment can ever be anything other than a supreme act of violence by society against a human being. This holds whatever your view of the justice, or even divine ordination, of the act.
Posted by Rob Smith @ 10/24/2003 08:27 PM CST
Huh?!? I don't think anyone has done away with sin or the law - last I heard. But then you know those wiley Anglicans -- they could be up to something just so diabolical...
Posted by Pen @ 10/22/2003 07:19 PM CST
Richard, what a brilliant thing to do. You don't like it that the God of the Old Testament is also the God of the New Testament...so you simply do away with His Law by pointing out one of His "harsh" laws, assuming we can't have that one, and so concluding that we can't have any of the others, either.
Funny that Jesus, who is God, would come to earth and contradict everything God said. That is...assuming He actually contradicted what God said, which He didn't.
What's more, how strange it is that Jesus should come and preach repentance and teach that one must accept his blood atonement for...for what? We just did away with the Law. We can't have stoning of rebellious children, nor can we have execution of murderers. In fact, since we jettisoned the Old Testament like Rob suggested Jesus didn't atone for anything. One can't sin if there's no Law to violate.
What's to be atoned for if one can't sin? Certainly not sins.
Posted by Pieter Friedrich @ 10/22/2003 05:36 PM CST
Thanks Pen - I'll be taking that one to my next Church Council!
Posted by Richard @ 10/22/2003 07:35 AM CST
So, after thinking this afternoon about Pieter's use of the crucifixion as a support for the death penalty...
Is it also true -- that because the Israelites used a prostitutes house to spy out the promised land (to-be) that God also endorses prostitution? Boy would that be a different take on a 'fund-raiser'.
Posted by Pen @ 10/22/2003 01:22 AM CST
Wow.
If anything, Jesus' crucifixion points out that there is no reason or excuse for "redemptive violence" of any sort. Jesus took the full blow of humanity's hatred and violence upon himself so that we might be free.
Please, let's not try to twist that powerful event into a means of perpetuating the violence and suffering that it was meant to erase.
Posted by Jonathan @ 10/21/2003 08:20 PM CST
Yeah Pieter -- nice way to be insulting. I remember Genesis 9:6 as well. But I also remember 70 x 7, and a number of other places where Jesus asks us to forgive, repent, and reconcile.
Jesus' crucifixion is not the proof text for the death penalty -- rather it is the way in which we come to know of God's love for the world. It is hard for me to imagine that a poor, illiterate black man put on death row for a crime he might or might not have committed is the next Messiah.
The question Pieter is whether you remember Amos 5:24 -- where is the justice in the current application of the death penalty?
I guess there is justice in it if you are white, middle-class and are able to afford an attorney... In fact go ahead and read all of Amos while your at... Jeremiah wouldn't hurt either.
Posted by Pen @ 10/21/2003 02:35 PM CST
I can remember Gen 9:6 quite well thanks Pieter.I also remember Deut 21:18-19 and a little story Jesus told about a rebellious son in Luke 15.
Posted by Richard @ 10/21/2003 08:23 AM CST
Wow. The lack of knowledge of Scripture among modern-day professing Christians is astounding. Two pastors...Richard and Pen...and neither one of them can remember Genesis 9:6.
I was kind of thinking stoning was a good method of execution. But then, what am I thinking? God opposes the death penalty.
I suppose the fact that God sent Jesus Christ to die on the Cross has nothing to do with this. God demands a blood atonement for each man's sins, so He sent Christ to die for those who would repent. Had God been anti-death penalty He wouldn't have sent Christ to die for the sins that Christ took upon Himself.
Posted by Pieter Friedrich @ 10/20/2003 11:40 PM CST
I'm glad we don't still have the death penalty, but I've always felt that if we did, hanging would really be the most appropriate method -- because it makes manifest the barbarity of the act of taking someones life.
Posted by Rob Smith @ 10/20/2003 10:17 PM CST
I think we're kidding ourselves if we ever think there is a "safe and simple" method.
And if we do eventually discover one ... I for one hope there are one million flaming hoops one has to leap through before executing it.
Posted by Mean dean @ 10/20/2003 07:13 PM CST
If I (heaven forbid) ever had to pick my manner of execution, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't pick lethal injection.
Of course, the electric chair isn't a great alternative either.
And no way would I ever feel rightous in personally administering either one...one reason of several that I'm anti-death penalty.
Posted by Jonathan @ 10/20/2003 06:51 PM CST
