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06/24/2003 Entry: "Truth?"

I'm going to try to avoid the temptation of going off on another rant, but I just came across this site via blogs4God which contains this little gem:

To begin with, I hope you all understand that you are a soul/spiritual-being locked inside a human body that is expendable. We are to learn lessons for rehabilitation whilst in the body, through life experiences. Different from "public skool".., if we don't learn the lessons.., we don't get passed on. And this semester (on planet earth) is just about to close

The problem is that with the notion that our true selves are wrapped in an expendable body comes the notion that bodies are second rate, slightly sordid, maybe even evil. However, if the Christian doctine of the Incarnation means anything at all, it surely means that God has made our flesh itself holy. As one of the Church Fathers put it, "He became what we are, that we might become what he is." I know that Paul makes a lot of the contrast between life in the flesh and life in the spirit, but we do have to be careful not to get the wrong end of the stick. In context, Paul is using "flesh" as a shorthand for "human nature apart from Christ." He certainly doesn't mean the 'stuff" of our bodies, which you recall he refers to as a temple.

I strongly believe that I am inseperable from my body, feeble as it may be. And when the time comes for me to need a new one, I trust God to provide one. But without his grace and saving power nothing about me can survive.

http://www.utm.edu/research/iep/n/neoplato.htm

Hmmm ... perhaps we need to add this term to Richard's Wiki?

Posted by Mean Dean @ 06/26/2003 02:30 PM CST

It's not Gnosticism! It's Neo-Platonism.

There is much heresy and misunderstanding of biblical passages that would be cleared up if we could learn to stop forcing Neo-Platonic trash onto Christianity...unfortunately some otherwise good theologians have been doing the very thing, even way back with Augustine.

Posted by Bible Geek @ 06/26/2003 01:03 PM CST

Jan, you've always been so thoughtful and respectful in the past. I doubt very seriously you would offend me with a brain dump -- even if it is half-baked.

Believe me, I get offensive email, and I can say with utter certainty that you have never been considered one of "the bitter ones" crowd.

Part of the problem was that the site in question added tons of content after approval. Part of a redesign on their part -- not an intentional bait-n-switch (I've had that happen to me too !-)

So now what to do with the current version. Prayer, time, discussion. Not necessarily in that order.

Posted by Mean Dean @ 06/25/2003 09:30 PM CST

Looks like my comment on gnosticism has opened soemthing here. When I wrote that, I was specifically referring to hs entry about the distinction between body and soul and his discarding the body. My coment about the rest of the site was tongue in cheek. I had looked at it and was appalled. I was trying to find out if others had also done that in as tactful a way as I could.

Dean,I considered emailing you, but haven't yet worked out how to say what I really wanted to.Shalom,Jan

Posted by Jan @ 06/25/2003 09:14 PM CST

Actually, Gnosticism is more the denial and/or the mortification of the flesh, because the Flesh is Temporary and Evil.

Posted by Wood @ 06/25/2003 04:03 PM CST

Did a bit more reading of the blog. I don't disagree, these guys are out on the fringe. And I guess unless you've been around enough people from deep in the "Red Zone" here in the U.S., this stuff comes off as anti-everything.

To me, this isn't gnosticism, but bad writing. I think the point the guy is trying to make is that we should be more spirit-centric. It comes out of a belief system that since we are created in God's image, and since we worship God in spirit and in truth, that we focus on the spirit and not on the flesh.

To ME, this isn't gnosticism (and I could be wrong) because my limited understanding of gnosticism is basically "whooopiee, I can do what I want with my body because only the spirit matters." I don't think this guy is suggesting that.

Nor do I think he's anti going to church, but has a distrust for big organized religions mixed in with the typical Jack CHick (mis)understanding of the Catholic Church.

This is not to defend the guy. I dislike this Masada mentality very much and find it one of the reasons sites such as Landover Baptist parody thrive upon.

Okay, now I'm not sure what to think ...

Posted by Mean Dean @ 06/25/2003 01:15 PM CST

Well I've got the moderators looking into this one ... I guess the problem with some of us, since we don't practice gnosticism, sometimes its hard to spot.

To me, the guy came across like one of those on the extreme with that whole "Massada Mentality" ... and we all know how ThAT ended!-)

Posted by Mean Dean @ 06/25/2003 12:49 PM CST

Having just had a quick trawl through the site, I think the guy's gnosticism is the least we have to worry about.

Anti-semitic hate messages - check. Conspiracy theories - check. 'New World Order = UN' - check.

It goes on and aon. The owner of that site is barking mad. I mean, woof, woof.

Posted by Wood @ 06/25/2003 09:32 AM CST

Does "resurrection of the body" mean anything to these people?

This is why we have creeds... to remember what orthodox (non-heretical) doctrine sounds like...

Thanks Richardfor carrying the day against gnosticism..

Posted by Pen @ 06/25/2003 07:54 AM CST

Yes I did Jan. And the "Jah" site it links to heavily. And I thought it was all fairly dodgy (to put it mildly!)

Posted by Richard @ 06/25/2003 07:16 AM CST

As I said last week, gnosticism is alive and well and coming to a blog near you.

Seriously though, have you looked at any more of this site?Shalom,Jan

Posted by Jan @ 06/25/2003 06:04 AM CST